Curse

Bane of Worlds · Jan 29, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

As if people need Rit Hero, roll 2 SF Eles and MM you own almost anywhere in PvE. People dont NEED Rit hero, people WANT it, then earn it. Razah is pretty much like UW spider to me, just to show off that you have conquered DoA.

QFT

also
/notsigned

people who are signing this even in the wrong forum( belongs in Sardelac Sanitarium) do not have Razah, don't want to put too much effort like gaining other heroes, they will not use em, and didn't consider others who HAVE invested these required gems already to obtain a special hero.
-the variable part was there in the manual maybe because they didn't finalized what to make of this hero
-he's obtainable in the elite area since Nightfall shouldn't have the rit profession and it's like a bonus for those who want to at least have a profession that they do not have access despite they can't make an effective use since you do not Factions
-they did this so there will be an elite hard-to-get hero that will be special to some and a pve goal
-not all heroes are required to complete the story of the campaign like the Acolyte Jin or Sousuke, Olias, Zenmai, Goren,and Norgu as these aren't required for the completion of the nightfall campaign

Vermilion · Jan 29, 2007, 05:25 AM // 05:25

This is an easy fix. Remove the hero reqs for all missions, and move all the quests to get the other heros to DoA.

I helped.

-Old 3FL- · Jan 29, 2007, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

In other words you want to strip away something to work for and replace it by 5min quest thus lowering longevity of PvE goals even more.

Razah is totally optional. Just like more expensive armour. Just like some expensive weapon skin.

Agreed.
You dont have to get him.
If you want him that bad unlock him with faction on a pvp char.

Zehnchu · Jan 29, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

As if people need Rit Hero, roll 2 SF Eles and MM you own almost anywhere in PvE. People dont NEED Rit hero, people WANT it, then earn it. Razah is pretty much like UW spider to me, just to show off that you have conquered DoA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane of Worlds

QFT

also
/notsigned

people who are signing this even in the wrong forum( belongs in Sardelac Sanitarium) do not have Razah, don't want to put too much effort like gaining other heroes, they will not use em, and didn't consider others who HAVE invested these required gems already to obtain a special hero.
-the variable part was there in the manual maybe because they didn't finalized what to make of this hero
-he's obtainable in the elite area since Nightfall shouldn't have the rit profession and it's like a bonus for those who want to at least have a profession that they do not have access despite they can't make an effective use since you do not Factions
-they did this so there will be an elite hard-to-get hero that will be special to some and a pve goal
-not all heroes are required to complete the story of the campaign like the Acolyte Jin or Sousuke, Olias, Zenmai, Goren,and Norgu as these aren't required for the completion of the nightfall campaign

Thanks for the speculation, now if you have facts about the majority of Guild Wars players feel this way then it would be different. Yet you have none.

Here’s a fact

Quote:

Developers knew it was going to be a problem even before they released Razah.

I’m sure someone will have better luck at finding this quote from Gaile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Old 3FL-

Agreed.
You dont have to get him.
If you want him that bad unlock him with faction on a pvp char.

Does that unlock him for pve? I think not please try again.

Qual · Jan 29, 2007, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Heroes belong to NF. But when I have said that, yes he is too hard to get.
I wish there was an easier way to get him. But I don't really care.

Omega X · Jan 29, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Razah is an ellite hero to get hence the trouble to get him, so just go get him it isnt a grind by any means and the gems are very easy to get just get into a group and play real simple, they are not going to drop off the gem's just get the gem's and go get him it is easy if you TRY.

Razah is a plain ol' Ritualist. An elite hero would be something special not the run of the mill type. Just like regular weapons from a weaponcrafter vs weapons found in the wild. One is more unique than the other.

NOW, if he could change into any profession at any time, then he would have been considered "elite". But to consider a plain Ritualist "elite" is just plain stupid.

nugzta · Jan 29, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Thanks for the speculation, now if you have facts about the majority of Guild Wars players feel this way then it would be different. Yet you have none.

Here’s a fact

I’m sure someone will have better luck at finding this quote from Gaile.

Does that unlock him for pve? I think not please try again.

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

arcanemacabre · Jan 29, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

It's exactly as necessary as having a 20/20 collector Earth staff. You can debate and say "There's plenty of other staves you can get, with different mods, plus there is Air, Water, and Fire. If you want a 20/20 Earth staff, just buy one from a player, I'm sure there's one out there for only 100k+". Does that sound reasonable? Does it seem fair?

Razah as he is now is ONLY fair if there was a "collector" (as in easy to acquire) version of him. Then the people who like to collect rare things can have their expensive/grind-worthy hero, and the rest of us can have a cheap Ritualist hero.

Talon one · Jan 29, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

there is also no 'need' to play the game, except for fun. and thats the reason why ppl want the ritualist hero, so that they can play with builds of any profession if they want to. putting the only rit hero so far out of reach of the normal players isnt much fun for most.

i think the reason why he is so hard to obtain is because he is factions content, and nightfall only players get to play with a profession they didnt pay for - they cant get the assassin hero because the quest is in cantha. if that is really an issue then i think it would be best if there was a 2nd ritualist hero, available from a quest in cantha.

or maybe a vote your fave npc to hero contest: the community votes and the winner is going to be made available as a recruitable hero. i'd vote for prince rurik and professor gai

jackie · Jan 29, 2007, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

WOW what remark... where shall I begin.

Razah is nether an upgrade or a Hero skin upgrade so don’t compare him to a perfect Gothic Sword, Magma shields in comparison to a KC vendors Katana or Lion Shield for 5k plus materials; Hero’s are not optional they are a fundamental aspect of the game, even more so than any single Elite skill or 15k armor. Hero’s are required for quests and are given away, unlike a special weapon skin, 15k, or FOW armor. Razah is a Hero just like Koss NO MORE NO LESS.

As a matter fact you get every Hero (except Razah) once you beat Nightfall giving more evidence that Hero’s are not comparable to expensive armor. Razah is the design flaw of Nightfall Hero’s no more no less. He is the quintessential exception to the rule of all other Nightfall Hero’s and should not be an exception to the rule. Usually exceptions in designs without an extremely good reason are called “flaws”.

What Armor does he replace, what weapon skin does he replace? How do you even compare him as a Hero to all other Hero’s what makes him more elite than any other Hero IN GAME that require the extreme requirements for getting him? What justifies this that makes his “flaw” the sole exception to all other Hero’s in this game?

Can you or can you not survive without Razah in this game?

As you said, one gets all heroes automatically after finishing the game Except Razah.

He is there for those who want to do endgame PvE or just buy those gems. If you feel that you Have to get him, then work for it like thousands of players already have.
Where does it read that ANet has to give Razah for free? If AN wants to add endgame content then it's their choice.

Players choice is to start bitching about how it's impossible to get a hero that thousands of players already have or accept the fact that not everything in this game is just around the corner.

Phoenix Ex · Jan 29, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

sigh....every 2 weeks or so threads like this comes up....

Yet another effort to ruin achievements that other people spent so much time and platinums striving for....I won't hold my breath cuz chances are its gonna happen just like the inscribable crystalline, the tanked green prices, the superior absorption/vigor runes, ectos and countless other.

w/e /signed, might as well get it over with.

Sid Doog · Jan 29, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Razah is a plain ol' Ritualist. An elite hero would be something special not the run of the mill type. Just like regular weapons from a weaponcrafter vs weapons found in the wild. One is more unique than the other.

NOW, if he could change into any profession at any time, then he would have been considered "elite". But to consider a plain Ritualist "elite" is just plain stupid.

Ok i guess i didnt make myself clear he is a hero in an ellite area and only people that gain acess to this area and meet the requirments should get him BOTTOM LINE if you dont have him dont get him and quit whinning in the fourms about it lol man o man everyone wants something for nothing at all times....................

Omega X · Jan 29, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Ok i guess i didnt make myself clear he is a hero in an ellite area and only people that gain acess to this area and meet the requirments should get him BOTTOM LINE if you dont have him dont get him and quit whinning in the fourms about it lol man o man everyone wants something for nothing at all times....................

LOL! You got to be kidding me. What kind of weak argument is that? The Area doesn't make him elite. If that's the case then everything positioned in that area should be considered elite as well. Even the non max weapons. That's like if I had to go to the Domain of Anguish just to get a bolt of cloth and claimed that it was worth 100k and 3 ectos. Pull your head out of you back end and smell some fresh air.

GloryFox · Jan 29, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Posted by Sid Doog
Razah is an ellite hero to get hence the trouble to get him, so just go get him it isnt a grind by any means and the gems are very easy to get just get into a group and play real simple

Now lets break it down and take a look at what you just said.

Quote:

Razah is an ellite hero

… nope he is no different than Norgu. However he was intended to be elite by being variable.

Quote:

it isnt a grind by any means

… nope not true either the average person LFG in DoA is about an hour at least then it’s a few hours of game time per area. Then you must have one of each GEM type on top of that. Foundry alone even with a decent group lasts 5 hours or more and that’s not Grind? For one Gem mind you.

Quote:

and the gems are very easy to get

In comparison to what?

Quote:

just get into a group and play real simple[

.

Sorry but once again you’re very mistaken, if you are not a player who is a member of the right foursome classes of farming then you can forget it. Dervish, Paragon, Assassin and others have virtually no place in DoA as dictated by the community at large. Plus there is this thing called time that real people real issues with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta
Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

All single class Hero’s are easy to get but Razah. This shows the intent for all single class Hero’s to be unlocked and a necessary reward aspect of the game. This also means the Ritualist Hero was the “flaw” of the game design by being left out. I believe that this was unintended and that Razah was meant to be Elite by having a variable class option and he can fill the need for a Ritualist Hero at the same time. This again means Razah was “a flaw” because he was meant to be Elite and variable. Without him you could replace Razah with any other single class Hero in the game.

I personally find the Ritualist to be a valuable asset to my Warrior and Paragon PvE builds just as some people find Norgu valuable. It only took me 2 months to find groups with my skill level to complete DoA mind you. Many don’t have the time as I do, but love the Ritualist class more than a SIN or MESMER. Why was the Ritualist HERO requirements designed differant than any other Hero in the game that is simple enough to get?

If anyone from ANET is reading this please fix your “flaw”.

SirJackassIII · Jan 29, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

Can you or can you not survive without Razah in this game?

Bad argument. People can ironman every game using starter armor and starter weapons. As such, there needs to be no improvement to armor or weapons besides those.

Quote:

He is there for those who want to do endgame PvE or just buy those gems. If you feel that you Have to get him, then work for it like thousands of players already have.

I don't think thousands have played DoA because...it sucks. On the "buy those gems", ANet once released how much gold people have on their account. The majority had less than 25k. I suppose it's gone up since then, but the majority is still too poor to buy this Hero, let alone for all their characters. If he was only a vanity item like 15k armor or Crystaline Swords, I'd agree that people should grind/work for him. However, a Hero is not a weapon or a piece of armor.

Quote:

Where does it read that ANet has to give Razah for free?

That "skill over time spent" line on the boxes...

noblepaladin · Jan 29, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I don't think the "you don't need him to do PvE" argument applies here. You don't any swordsmanship skills to beat PvE either, so why don't we make sword skills only obtainable from a trainer in DoA after beating many quests.

ANets policy has always been that the stuff that the "elite" players have (or are able to get) can be easily duplicated in the form of a cheaper but statistically identical version that is easily obtained (i.e. a Chaos Axe is statistically the same as a collector axe, FoW armor is statistically the same as normal armor).

My suggestion is that they should make an ugly looking generic ritualist hero that is easier to obtain and that hero would be replaced by the cool Razah if you do the DoA quests, so that the casual players can get an exact equivalent in terms of performance, but an "ugly skin". All the people who have worked hard will still have the cool skin to show.

Amity and Truth · Jan 29, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

If Razah were multiclass as was planned and indicated in the manual he would deserve that hard place to get him. It would actually give him the status elite but as it is now he is just a simple ritualist and there is nothing elite about him.

I have him on my monk but I seriously want to spill my stomach at the thought of having to go through this DoA Boredom Crap again on the other characters.

Achievement? Don't make me "rotflol". He is not an achievement at all, he is currently a pain in the ***.

Illuminus · Jan 29, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Bah, DoA... As always the results are cookie cutter builds which causes certain professions not getting into teams. My main character is a ritualist.. now, i know there are worse professions out there when it gets to getting a team.. but i have simply given up on getting a team in DoA. I don't have the time to wait around 2 hours just to join a team that dies in 5 minutes..

So i have two choices to get Razah.. either buy the gems or bring a cookie cutter profession through Nightfall just so i can play DoA.

I don't mind a small fee to gain Razah, but obtaining 4 gems just for one hero is a bit to much.

zwei2stein · Jan 29, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

I don't think the "you don't need him to do PvE" argument applies here. You don't any swordsmanship skills to beat PvE either, so why don't we make sword skills only obtainable from a trainer in DoA after beating many quests.

Exactly. Razah is not elite thing, its not vanity thing either, it is tool and if there is no equivalent replacement, it should be avaiable to masses. Frankly, finishing game and completing masters dificulty quest to get him is apropriate enough.

i see it that way that those who opose this change:

* worked hard for their hero and bought gems/erned gems - sorry, you are on board with people who had HoD swords and such. Your achievent is not gone btw, you still were the one to get him the hard way. make screenie of you having razah today to keep bragging rights.
* want it as goal - you are minority here, and there are more than enough other longterm goals, besides this game is designed to have longerm goals optional and not gving you any advatage, you pursued wrong goal. if you didnt earn him by now, chances are that you are not gonna do it anyway.
* have time to do DoA and sell gems to people who dont. deal with it, you choosed wrong goods to trade.

broodijzer · Jan 29, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

/signed

he's like the only sword available in the whole game, and all the people here are using arguments like "Who needs swords anyway, just use hammers/axes! all those sword skills are just to look at!"